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	<title>Comments on: Crackers and Other Mental Acrobatics</title>
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	<description>My blogging and writing sandbox...</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.rabe.org/crackers-and-other-mental-acrobatics/comment-page-1/#comment-1027</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 02:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabe.org/?p=164#comment-1027</guid>
		<description>This whole saga - particularly the original hysteria, death threats, the ongoing attempts to get the student expelled and sacking of Myers, is so reminiscent of the radical Islam reaction to Salmon Rushdie&#039;s book, the Danish cartoons, etc.

It just shows that this irrational hysteria is &#039;closer to home&#039; than we original thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole saga &#8211; particularly the original hysteria, death threats, the ongoing attempts to get the student expelled and sacking of Myers, is so reminiscent of the radical Islam reaction to Salmon Rushdie&#8217;s book, the Danish cartoons, etc.</p>
<p>It just shows that this irrational hysteria is &#8216;closer to home&#8217; than we original thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel&#8217;s Musings &#187; The End of a Cracker</title>
		<link>http://www.rabe.org/crackers-and-other-mental-acrobatics/comment-page-1/#comment-1020</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel&#8217;s Musings &#187; The End of a Cracker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] collectively - accused of desecrating crackers by (supposedly) stabbing them (and thus Jesus in the bizarre logic of the Catholic church). In commemoration of these persecutions, Myers also stabbed the cracker by [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] collectively &#8211; accused of desecrating crackers by (supposedly) stabbing them (and thus Jesus in the bizarre logic of the Catholic church). In commemoration of these persecutions, Myers also stabbed the cracker by [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.rabe.org/crackers-and-other-mental-acrobatics/comment-page-1/#comment-864</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 17:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for clarifying this, Pat, if we can call elaborating the confusing Catholic doctrine clarification ;-). Since I was raised (sort of) Protestant, I learned that tainted interpretation of Catholic doctrine. Although, apparently, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pacifier.com/rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Martin Luther&lt;/a&gt; also believed in the magic of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;transubstantiation&lt;/a&gt;. (And, btw, in Germany, where I grew up, there aren&#039;t as many &quot;flavors&quot; of Christianity as there are in the US: There&#039;s Catholic and there&#039;s Protestant/Lutheran.)

Pat wrote: &quot;Catholics believe the bread really &lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt; Christ&quot;

Oh, boy, it&#039;s worse than I thought! I think there&#039;s even another twist: Although the cracker is Christ, it really isn&#039;t Christ because the Catholics aren&#039;t cannibals. So, they&#039;re eating Christ but they&#039;re not really eating him. Well, maybe that&#039;s my Protestant learning coming through again - it&#039;s obvious my interpretation is rather tainted by that... But there is some sort of additional twist involved because Catholics claim that they&#039;re not really cannibals... 

I completely agree with your assessment that the upset from true believers is likely due to their avoidance facing &quot;their inner demon of doubt.&quot; I can highly recommend &quot;Mistakes were Made (but not by me),&quot; which describes cognitive dissonance very accessibly. Good point to link this fear with the childhood indoctrination. That abuse surely must have quite a destructive impact on a person&#039;s psyche.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for clarifying this, Pat, if we can call elaborating the confusing Catholic doctrine clarification <img src='http://www.rabe.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> . Since I was raised (sort of) Protestant, I learned that tainted interpretation of Catholic doctrine. Although, apparently, <a href="http://www.pacifier.com/rosary-center.org/ll49n3.htm" rel="nofollow">Martin Luther</a> also believed in the magic of <a href="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm#section3" rel="nofollow">transubstantiation</a>. (And, btw, in Germany, where I grew up, there aren&#8217;t as many &#8220;flavors&#8221; of Christianity as there are in the US: There&#8217;s Catholic and there&#8217;s Protestant/Lutheran.)</p>
<p>Pat wrote: &#8220;Catholics believe the bread really <strong>is</strong> Christ&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh, boy, it&#8217;s worse than I thought! I think there&#8217;s even another twist: Although the cracker is Christ, it really isn&#8217;t Christ because the Catholics aren&#8217;t cannibals. So, they&#8217;re eating Christ but they&#8217;re not really eating him. Well, maybe that&#8217;s my Protestant learning coming through again &#8211; it&#8217;s obvious my interpretation is rather tainted by that&#8230; But there is some sort of additional twist involved because Catholics claim that they&#8217;re not really cannibals&#8230; </p>
<p>I completely agree with your assessment that the upset from true believers is likely due to their avoidance facing &#8220;their inner demon of doubt.&#8221; I can highly recommend &#8220;Mistakes were Made (but not by me),&#8221; which describes cognitive dissonance very accessibly. Good point to link this fear with the childhood indoctrination. That abuse surely must have quite a destructive impact on a person&#8217;s psyche.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.rabe.org/crackers-and-other-mental-acrobatics/comment-page-1/#comment-858</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 06:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabe.org/?p=164#comment-858</guid>
		<description>Hi Rachel -- just browsing another thread :-)  and saw your post on PZ Meyer&#039;s admirable rant. I was raised Catholic and left at 16 -- never to look back. But those not brought up with Catholic doctrine have never been exposed to the subtle casuistry that implants Catholic belief. So, let me elucidate the logic a bit.

Catholics don&#039;t believe that the cracker, or bread, symbolizes Christ. Symbology is a Protestant abomination.  :-)  Catholics believe the bread really *&lt;strong&gt;is&lt;/strong&gt;* Christ. 

For them, every single cracker consecrated at mass really is the body of Christ in an organic way, even though it looks and tastes like bread. Here&#039;s how the Church explains the contradiction. The cracker has the inner substance of Christ but the external form of a wheat cracker. Got that? :-)   This is the advance that 1500 years of back-breaking, logic-warping theologizing has gotten us.

After 200 years of the Enlightenment, we have a political philosophy that has opened the door to rational ethics and equality among all humans.  After 400 years of science, we have life-saving vaccines, food enough for everyone (presuming no political corruption), a magnificent view of the universe, and Mars probes.  

And after 1500 years of casuistic double-talk, we have the substance but not the form to explain to us all why murmuring words over a cracker doesn&#039;t seem to do anything. I&#039;m laughing as I write. It&#039;s too much. . . . :-D

Anyway, after many years of arguing religion and science (and contraception and abortion) on various boards with all manner of J/C/M true believers, who often manifested a similar hostility to any real challenge to their beliefs, I finally came up with a likely reason why they get so upset even over trifles.

That is, actually confronting a reasoned argument would require that they face their inner demon of doubt, and by that the entire induced structure of their psychology. I think true believers fear that inner demon more than anything else. And that fear of introspection -- and psychological equilibrium it might destroy -- is so strong that they&#039;d rather attack their external opponents than examine their inner beliefs.   Hence the rage against the student who walked off with the cracker. Hence the Inquisition. It&#039;s all about fear of self-destruction. Fear of a living death, at the bottom.

I think that fear has its roots in the deep trauma done to children indoctrinated into the faith by use of fear stories. Like Dawkins, I long ago realized that hard-core religious training of the young is child abuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rachel &#8212; just browsing another thread <img src='http://www.rabe.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   and saw your post on PZ Meyer&#8217;s admirable rant. I was raised Catholic and left at 16 &#8212; never to look back. But those not brought up with Catholic doctrine have never been exposed to the subtle casuistry that implants Catholic belief. So, let me elucidate the logic a bit.</p>
<p>Catholics don&#8217;t believe that the cracker, or bread, symbolizes Christ. Symbology is a Protestant abomination.  <img src='http://www.rabe.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Catholics believe the bread really *<strong>is</strong>* Christ. </p>
<p>For them, every single cracker consecrated at mass really is the body of Christ in an organic way, even though it looks and tastes like bread. Here&#8217;s how the Church explains the contradiction. The cracker has the inner substance of Christ but the external form of a wheat cracker. Got that? <img src='http://www.rabe.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />    This is the advance that 1500 years of back-breaking, logic-warping theologizing has gotten us.</p>
<p>After 200 years of the Enlightenment, we have a political philosophy that has opened the door to rational ethics and equality among all humans.  After 400 years of science, we have life-saving vaccines, food enough for everyone (presuming no political corruption), a magnificent view of the universe, and Mars probes.  </p>
<p>And after 1500 years of casuistic double-talk, we have the substance but not the form to explain to us all why murmuring words over a cracker doesn&#8217;t seem to do anything. I&#8217;m laughing as I write. It&#8217;s too much. . . . <img src='http://www.rabe.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyway, after many years of arguing religion and science (and contraception and abortion) on various boards with all manner of J/C/M true believers, who often manifested a similar hostility to any real challenge to their beliefs, I finally came up with a likely reason why they get so upset even over trifles.</p>
<p>That is, actually confronting a reasoned argument would require that they face their inner demon of doubt, and by that the entire induced structure of their psychology. I think true believers fear that inner demon more than anything else. And that fear of introspection &#8212; and psychological equilibrium it might destroy &#8212; is so strong that they&#8217;d rather attack their external opponents than examine their inner beliefs.   Hence the rage against the student who walked off with the cracker. Hence the Inquisition. It&#8217;s all about fear of self-destruction. Fear of a living death, at the bottom.</p>
<p>I think that fear has its roots in the deep trauma done to children indoctrinated into the faith by use of fear stories. Like Dawkins, I long ago realized that hard-core religious training of the young is child abuse.</p>
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		<title>By: Jender</title>
		<link>http://www.rabe.org/crackers-and-other-mental-acrobatics/comment-page-1/#comment-846</link>
		<dc:creator>Jender</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 08:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.rabe.org/?p=164#comment-846</guid>
		<description>Wow!!!  I had not heard of this, and it&#039;s an amazing story.  Thanks for letting me know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!!!  I had not heard of this, and it&#8217;s an amazing story.  Thanks for letting me know.</p>
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